sleep traps and potion usage

From its early days on the C64 and VIC-20, the "remake" for the PC and Mac, or all-new version which is now available on the iTunes App Store (http://bit.ly/8MDq3N)
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grendal25
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Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:08 pm

sleep traps and potion usage

Post by grendal25 » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:22 pm

I've been a fan of this game for a long time. As a kid I'd load it up on my C64 and play for as long as my parents would let me. Back then I never really noticed the incredibly unfair and not fun issues that happen with this game (maybe they weren't so harsh in that version)

If I have 10 restoration potions in my bag and the game auto uses them, shouldn't it use every single one of them before I die?
Another frustrating death, if I fall asleep due to a sleep trap, any damage should wake me up, but for what ever reason the damage caused by the wraith's moan does not wake you. So you can be hit by 4 different moans, still be immobile and then get attacked by the same wraiths, who kill you and you have no chance to do a damn thing about it.
On the same note, if I fall asleep and take damage and I'm "wide awake now" I should NOT fall back to sleep after the fight that woke me. The trap should be done as soon as you take ANY type of damage. Basically if you hit one of these traps you can be stun locked (almost every game maker has noted how not fun this is for players) and hit by multiple sources of damage with no way of saving yourself.

Sorry to just be venting frustration here, I do love the game, I think it has a few aspects that are a bit harsh on the players.

freela00
Site Admin
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Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:39 pm

Re: sleep traps and potion usage

Post by freela00 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:16 am

Hey grendal25,

First if all, "Thanks!" for playing and enjoying the game over the years!

I'll comment inline below.

— Jeff
grendal25 wrote:I've been a fan of this game for a long time. As a kid I'd load it up on my C64 and play for as long as my parents would let me. Back then I never really noticed the incredibly unfair and not fun issues that happen with this game (maybe they weren't so harsh in that version)

If I have 10 restoration potions in my bag and the game auto uses them, shouldn't it use every single one of them before I die?

Jeff's Comment: Understood, but in the spirit of what someone might be able to quickly swallow on a life-or-death situation it's hard to imagine downing 10 or 12 potions in one go. That was some of our logic there.

Another frustrating death, if I fall asleep due to a sleep trap, any damage should wake me up, but for what ever reason the damage caused by the wraith's moan does not wake you. So you can be hit by 4 different moans, still be immobile and then get attacked by the same wraiths, who kill you and you have no chance to do a damn thing about it.

Jeff's Comment: No question that it is a magically-induced sleep, so there are those unfortunate situations where being affected by the trap can yield undesirable results.

On the same note, if I fall asleep and take damage and I'm "wide awake now" I should NOT fall back to sleep after the fight that woke me. The trap should be done as soon as you take ANY type of damage. Basically if you hit one of these traps you can be stun locked (almost every game maker has noted how not fun this is for players) and hit by multiple sources of damage with no way of saving yourself.

Jeff's Comment: Thanks for the opinion and the game concept comparison. We will take your suggestion under advisement.

Sorry to just be venting frustration here, I do love the game, I think it has a few aspects that are a bit harsh on the players.
It's always great to get strong opinions about the game. It helps us either to make changes and adjustments in certain areas, or to evaluate whether our intent is being served (or not) and make adjustments accordingly.

One suggestion in general: I'd you find yourself becoming unnecessarily frustrated by unexpected deaths, you might really enjoy "Squire" mode, which has an automatic Resurrection every time you die back to the last temple you visited. There's no shame in playing that mode — I myself often do!

— Jeff

HateSleep
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Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: sleep traps and potion usage

Post by HateSleep » Sat May 10, 2014 4:04 pm

I agree with the original poster. This game has many admirable qualities and there is much to like about it, but it ceases to become a game somewhere around level 15 or so where the tactics are pretty-much taken out of your hands and it becomes an exercise of Russian Roulette.

The only way I have experienced to circumvent the sleep traps is to just stop opening trapped chests somewhere around level fifteen or so. Some of them put you to sleep immediately and any nearby enemy will end the game, no matter what other preparations you might have made. Hopefully by this point, you might have enough things stored up to get the sword and get out.

Is Sword of Fargoal a game? I don't know. A game presumes that good tactical decisions will give you a fair chance to achieve success. This exercise in swiping will reward good tactics up to a point but in the end, if you make it out with the sword, you had a luckier draw than the last fellow.

freela00
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Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:39 pm

Re: sleep traps and potion usage

Post by freela00 » Sat May 10, 2014 4:37 pm

HateSleep wrote:I agree with the original poster. This game has many admirable qualities and there is much to like about it, but it ceases to become a game somewhere around level 15 or so where the tactics are pretty-much taken out of your hands and it becomes an exercise of Russian Roulette.

The only way I have experienced to circumvent the sleep traps is to just stop opening trapped chests somewhere around level fifteen or so. Some of them put you to sleep immediately and any nearby enemy will end the game, no matter what other preparations you might have made. Hopefully by this point, you might have enough things stored up to get the sword and get out.

Is Sword of Fargoal a game? I don't know. A game presumes that good tactical decisions will give you a fair chance to achieve success. This exercise in swiping will reward good tactics up to a point but in the end, if you make it out with the sword, you had a luckier draw than the last fellow.
We will discuss this internally and see if there's a creative solution. Certainly we want Fargoal to be fun!

— Jeff

blakeariel
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Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:52 pm
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Re: sleep traps and potion usage

Post by blakeariel » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:58 am

Fargoal for me is a fun game no doubt about it sir Jeff! I'm enjoying it a lot.
The knives of jealousy are honed on details.

krm27
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Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:53 am

Re: sleep traps and potion usage

Post by krm27 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:20 pm

HateSleep wrote:I agree with the original poster. This game has many admirable qualities and there is much to like about it, but it ceases to become a game somewhere around level 15 or so where the tactics are pretty-much taken out of your hands and it becomes an exercise of Russian Roulette.

The only way I have experienced to circumvent the sleep traps is to just stop opening trapped chests somewhere around level fifteen or so. Some of them put you to sleep immediately and any nearby enemy will end the game, no matter what other preparations you might have made. Hopefully by this point, you might have enough things stored up to get the sword and get out.

Is Sword of Fargoal a game? I don't know. A game presumes that good tactical decisions will give you a fair chance to achieve success. This exercise in swiping will reward good tactics up to a point but in the end, if you make it out with the sword, you had a luckier draw than the last fellow.

Why open chests with monsters nearby? From the get go, I rarely use the detect spell. I just clear out the area around the chest(s) by a good distance, kill all monsters there and when it's clear, I open the chest. If I fall asleep then I wake before any monster gets close. Some exceptions for green ghoul levels, and very "low" dungeons. Wait to get spirit bane to clear green levels and/or use your detect + wand of opening to avoid any traps. As a fail safe, you have a few turns before you fall asleep-- time to run onto a temple, cast a beacon spell or a shield spell. I'm on level 22 now in Hero mode trying to get stronger before grabbing sword, my guy is level 23, and I've mapped all higher levels, and I've only been attacked sleeping 2 or 3 times by weak creatures, never any real danger. Oh, telepathy is also good to be sure you have safe distance from monsters when you open chest that might be trapped. I worry more about pits that can drop you to levels too hard yo deal with, and exploding chests cause I hate losing my map. I really prefer sleep traps to any other because they don't hurt you or your shield or risk your map. I often have regen on, so I heal as I nap. I've also started dropping my shield before opening suspicious chest because I don't want to hurt my shield, a good shield is a critical advantage. If mine breaks then getting a new shield becomes top priority, and I'll go to easier floors till I have a good metal or war shield.

Ken

krm27
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Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:53 am

Re: sleep traps and potion usage

Post by krm27 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:36 pm

Two off topic issues:

First, I cannot for the life of me find a "reply" button within a thread or a way to start a new thread. I had to use the "quote" button from a higher post to create a reply box. Maybe this is why this forum is so dead? No one knows how to post!!
-- NEVERMIND POINT ONE - realize these buttons are written in really slanted font. Makes them illegible on my iPad mini, but finally guessed that these were buttons... Maybe make them more legible?

As a second point, it appears I've maxed on hit points at 122 because I got no more hit points the last two times I leveled up. This seems a bit unfair. I understand the game was too easy when people had 500+ hit points, but now I get no reward at all for leveling up, and as I explore levels below 20 for goodies or interesting dungeons I find I'm using up more in spells & potions than I'm gaining in experience perks, which will actually make my run with Sword harder the more I explore, forcing me to decide between trying my best to "win" or trying to see as much of dungeon as possible. I think this is a mistake. The longer you stay alive in dungeon, the lower you can go and survive below floor 20, should strengthen your hero and increase your chance of victory. The only significant thing I've gained below level 20 is the dragon scale shield.

Oh a third suggestion -- some way to "see" secret doors besides the light spell. I would often prefer to use invisibility to explore a dangerous dungeon but then I may be missing out on secret areas. Maybe the detect spell should also detect secret doors or the dragon eyes should also see secret doors or something. It's tedious to clear a dangerous dungeon while invisible, then when I feel confident about it, having to re-walk it with light on looking for secret doors. If there is a spell for detect traps and dragon eyes to see invisible creatures, there out to be a magic way to see secret doors without bright light.

Ken

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